Recorded Meeting with Oregon State Parks Leadership – March 5, 2025 (Audio Only)

[0:00] yeah

[0:03] a think about some observations that

[0:06] I've been having you know your time here

[0:08] at the park and you know also recognize

[0:11] all the work that you've been doing um

[0:13] so you did you've been doing a great job

[0:14] at the Welcome Center you've also been

[0:16] doing a great job on the as recently as

[0:19] the Y had a lost and found drum and you

[0:21] turned it in follow all the procedures

[0:23] 100% correctly so that's great right and

[0:25] so thank you um so I want to you

[0:28] recognize the good stuff um doing uh

[0:31] here at the park um worked a double

[0:33] stayed an hour past that to help

[0:34] somebody yep yep so you're definitely

[0:37] providing that service you know that um

[0:39] you know the day-to-day operational

[0:41] service that we're after with the park

[0:44] um I care about this place that's good

[0:46] that's good that's what I mean I think

[0:48] all of us do right and that's why we're

[0:50] here we have that shared value and that

[0:53] shared you know belief of like why we're

[0:55] here and providing the service for

[0:56] people so so that's right that's right

[0:58] on that's good that's I glad to hear

[1:00] that and that's awesome that that that

[1:02] you do feel that way because that's the

[1:04] same way I feel I know that's the same

[1:05] way Katie feels and that's the same way

[1:07] all the Rangers feel and all the you

[1:09] know other volunteers you know like

[1:11] that's a you know something that we hold

[1:14] and talk about pretty often you know as

[1:15] a crew um of you know why we're here and

[1:18] why we're doing what we're doing you

[1:20] know so um is there anything you said

[1:23] you wanted to talk is there anything you

[1:24] want to talk about before we get before

[1:27] we um kind of get going

[1:30] I'd like to hear what you have to say

[1:32] okay yeah no worries yeah so um so yeah

[1:35] first off I just wanted like I said

[1:36] recognize all the efforts um that that

[1:40] you've been doing and you know I just

[1:42] some observation I'll start with some

[1:43] observations and so kind of my role as a

[1:47] park manager is to I want everybody to

[1:49] set up for success and some of that at

[1:53] times is you know providing expectations

[1:56] for people you know moving forward kind

[1:58] of you know you're brand new and state

[2:00] parks you think you hosted for a little

[2:03] while down ataw tugman right and so

[2:06] you're still learning the ropes yourself

[2:07] and getting understand had to navigate a

[2:10] lot of understanding like you know what

[2:13] we do when we do it why we do it how we

[2:14] do it and it can be a lot you know for

[2:16] people

[2:17] to um figure a lot of stuff out right

[2:21] and so hopefully that's where you know I

[2:24] come in as a manager Kitty comes in as R

[2:25] supervisor and all the Rangers are there

[2:27] to provide support and help as well

[2:30] to all the volunteers that that's really

[2:32] our role right you guys are part of our

[2:34] team and part of one big thing of our

[2:37] team operating principles is being

[2:40] supportive of each other you know and

[2:43] and so that can be interpreted in

[2:45] different ways right you know you know

[2:48] how supported people are are not you

[2:50] know and just so you know I've seen some

[2:53] you know I've seen some correspondents

[2:55] from you that kind

[2:58] of leads me to believe that that you

[3:01] believe that people aren't being

[3:02] supportive of you um and then you know

[3:06] also I would say I've been seen some

[3:09] stuff that may not be supportive of the

[3:11] crew and kind of what we're doing as

[3:13] well um so I have a just some talking

[3:16] points here of things I'd like to

[3:18] address and um and talk about and just

[3:21] so we're on the same page you know

[3:23] you're on the same page as I am and we

[3:25] have an understanding and a clear

[3:27] pathway forward for your success as a

[3:29] volunteer here okay I'm listening as you

[3:31] come through here you're going to go to

[3:32] other parks and um you know other Parks

[3:35] will have um EXA you almost got to

[3:38] relearn not relearn everything right but

[3:40] they do things differently at each Park

[3:43] um and so you know some of that is

[3:45] having you know patience and

[3:47] understanding where those processes but

[3:49] so anyway so um you know we have a lot

[3:52] of volunteers that come through the park

[3:54] regularly you know people that have been

[3:56] returning for 10 to 20 years you know

[3:59] like literally 20 20 years right and uh

[4:04] they interact with you know other

[4:05] volunteers they inter interact with the

[4:09] staff right and but there's an

[4:12] observation that I've made in the the

[4:16] month that you've been here is um and

[4:19] this is in correspondence coming from

[4:21] you directly in emails and texts to park

[4:24] rangers or myself or Katie um is that

[4:29] you know you've express some

[4:30] dissatisfaction with multiple members of

[4:33] the crew I mean myself Katie Logan Leaf

[4:37] Pat I don't agree with that okay well

[4:39] yeah so like I said that's just the

[4:42] observation I've made on the emails that

[4:44] I've seen from you well I don't agree

[4:46] with that and that's fine and and you

[4:48] don't have to agree with it um but I am

[4:52] communicating what my expectations are

[4:54] for you as a volunteer here at the park

[4:57] well I want you to know my petition as

[4:58] well I have never said anything I've

[5:00] never had a criticism towards you

[5:02] towards Leaf um it's just that's not how

[5:05] I we'll get more into we'll get more

[5:07] into it uh as we go along here um so

[5:11] long story short is after you have

[5:13] arrived it does appear that there you're

[5:15] having issues with different Park staff

[5:17] you know it started out with Katie at

[5:18] the beginning of the month and then I

[5:21] came and talked to you as a normal

[5:22] conversation I would with anybody else

[5:24] and that conversation didn't sit well

[5:26] with you either I think we rectified

[5:28] that through email

[5:30] right but it just there's I've observed

[5:33] a trend over the month that you've been

[5:35] here is that when somebody tries to

[5:37] provide you guidance or feedback um you

[5:41] take it as that

[5:42] they're like don't trust you or that

[5:45] they're um you know don't think that

[5:47] you're capable of understanding um I

[5:50] think recently I heard that you had

[5:51] requested that you know like a certain

[5:54] park ranger didn't lead an orientation

[5:57] right and so um one expectation I have I

[6:00] didn't request that I spoke to um Logan

[6:03] on the phone and I told him that every

[6:05] time Patrick and I interacted he was

[6:08] condescending towards me and he said

[6:09] that leaf would train me gotcha that was

[6:12] what Logan said to me I took him at his

[6:15] word right yeah my understand with that

[6:18] is that Logan was saying that he would

[6:19] look into it it wasn't like guarantee

[6:21] not what happened it was it's not what

[6:23] happened it's yeah it's it's fine like I

[6:26] said this isn't an argument so um we're

[6:29] not we're not doing an argument here so

[6:31] um long story short is any Ranger at any

[6:34] time will provide training to any

[6:36] volunteer here and I and I went to the

[6:38] training great um that's awesome and

[6:41] that and that's all we could ask for um

[6:44] but I would ask that you know with that

[6:46] being is that like um so in that

[6:49] instance I saw some feedback directly

[6:51] from you saying that Patrick was

[6:53] condescending towards you know the

[6:55] volunteers and the

[6:56] orientation and from what I understand

[6:59] from your words is that um you felt that

[7:03] with r with Patrick saying that like you

[7:07] know I'm here to provide support for you

[7:09] or something of that nature and he you

[7:12] said he repeated it multiple times in

[7:13] the conversation over the course of an

[7:15] hour he kept bringing it out but that

[7:16] wasn't the main point yeah so but it

[7:19] seemed like that was a a sign but I

[7:21] navigate it I navigate you know things I

[7:24] don't really have an issue with Patrick

[7:25] he's you know easy to navigate okay um

[7:28] the problem was was that Logan lied to

[7:30] me that's a fact well and and just so

[7:33] you know too um Logan came to me so Leaf

[7:36] was out sick right the day prior to the

[7:39] orientation and we we did not know if he

[7:41] was going to be available to even do an

[7:43] orientation right okay and so I also

[7:45] wasn't communicated to me well you're

[7:47] right and so and I even told Logan is

[7:49] like regardless is like Patrick was

[7:51] scheduled for the orientation like he

[7:54] was scheduled to do the orientation and

[7:56] so an expectation I have as a park

[7:58] manager for our volunteers and our staff

[8:01] is that we got to get along log with

[8:02] each other and so by Patrick not doing

[8:04] the orientation that was not an option

[8:06] so Patrick was doing the

[8:09] orientation regardless right and so from

[8:13] my understanding talking about Patrick I

[8:14] heard nothing in the conversation from

[8:16] Patrick that

[8:17] would for me to believe that he was not

[8:22] supportive of the volunteers and he's

[8:25] very plain what what I had heard is that

[8:27] he was offering help that's what I heard

[8:30] and it sound like what you heard is that

[8:31] he repeated himself and was insinuating

[8:34] that you weren't capable of

[8:36] understanding look I'm not sure what you

[8:38] want me to say I have already said yeah

[8:41] no and I told you I navigate him you

[8:44] know like I do everybody no fair enough

[8:46] and I Logan is my direct supervisor I

[8:48] tried to explain to him that every time

[8:50] Patrick comes to see me he is

[8:52] condescending towards me this is just

[8:54] the way it is and I navigate it and I

[8:56] knew that if I was in a training

[8:57] environment with him that that put him

[9:00] in a position of authority over where he

[9:02] could be even more condescending and I

[9:03] wanted to avoid that situation and Logan

[9:06] said that he would deal with it and have

[9:07] believe trained me and I believed him

[9:09] gotta so yeah and yeah I so I understand

[9:12] you have a conflict with Patrick not

[9:14] really okay I wanted to avoid a

[9:16] situation I wanted to prevent a

[9:18] situation right so so it sounds like you

[9:22] have an understanding of maybe what some

[9:24] triggers are for you right maybe Patrick

[9:26] does and you're navigating around those

[9:28] that's what I just heard you say if

[9:31] that's

[9:32] correct

[9:34] um I mean I don't know that I would call

[9:36] it a trigger because I do um like I said

[9:40] I navigate the situation it's just I I

[9:43] recognize the way he's talking to me and

[9:46] I don't think that he's conscious of it

[9:48] I don't think he's he's you know out to

[9:51] get me or something I just know that the

[9:54] way he

[9:55] it's okay fair fair enough yeah so so I

[9:59] give that and like um but just so I am

[10:03] being clear on this is that like you

[10:05] know Patrick is still a ranger and like

[10:08] he's interacted with lots of always

[10:10] respectful with him that's good that's

[10:11] that's great and my hope is that he is

[10:13] with you and if he's not then please let

[10:14] me know and we'll work on that but just

[10:17] so when and I you know I know Patrick

[10:20] right I worked with him for quite a few

[10:22] years and other volunteers who work with

[10:23] Patrick over the years and stuff and so

[10:26] I when I hear Patrick say this is this

[10:28] is my perspective when I hear Patrick

[10:30] say be like I'm here to help or just

[10:32] give me a call if you need anything when

[10:34] Patrick says that I take that as like

[10:36] that's Patrick

[10:37] genuinely I don't have this not about

[10:39] that it's really not about that it's

[10:42] like I mean trying Let me refresh my

[10:44] memory here the first thing he said was

[10:46] don't get your hopes up he said that

[10:48] twice and it was the way he said it

[10:50] refering like the schedule yeah it was

[10:52] like I was just asking a question about

[10:54] the schedule and then he just kept going

[10:56] on and on and on about it but that's not

[10:57] even so like a couple days before that

[10:59] I'm at the Welcome Center I have to do

[11:01] the um I had to escalate a situation I

[11:04] called all of you trying to you know

[11:05] including him and then he came in and

[11:08] said that he had to leave earlier and

[11:10] then described that whole call log to me

[11:12] like I hadn't just done it it's it's

[11:14] just the way he comes across it's like

[11:18] he's yeah and and so yeah and like in

[11:21] that situ just from for me hearing that

[11:23] right what when and obviously I I can't

[11:28] like

[11:29] I can I was just trying to avoid a

[11:31] situation and I believe understand how

[11:33] you're feeling or how that comes across

[11:35] right but when when I hear that to me it

[11:39] just sounds like Patrick's trying to

[11:41] he's being Patrick I understand I truly

[11:43] understand I think he's just trying to

[11:44] communicate because Patrick loves

[11:46] communication he likes lots of

[11:47] communication and and you almost have to

[11:50] overc communicate with Patrick in

[11:52] general and so the way I navigate him is

[11:54] I'll say we're good patri we're good but

[11:57] he hasn't picked up on that yet like I'm

[11:59] literally just trying to have a smooth

[12:01] relationship with everybody gotta and

[12:04] because Patrick wasn't picking up on it

[12:06] every single interaction went like that

[12:07] I was like okay if he trains me that

[12:10] could go very badly let's try to avoid

[12:12] that well yeah and and here's and the

[12:14] other thing too is that I would

[12:15] encourage people if if you are having

[12:18] like an issue like that like having a

[12:19] conversation like we're having I had one

[12:21] with Logan well Logan's not Patrick

[12:23] though and and Logan is not so what I

[12:26] would say is that something would need

[12:27] to happen with Patrick so like if I'm

[12:29] have a conversation and I'm hearing this

[12:31] I I have a thing that says I hear that

[12:33] Patrick and he is somehow supposed to

[12:36] know that that means like I'm you're

[12:39] saying be more direct with them you guys

[12:41] don't like it when I'm direct you guys

[12:42] don't like it so what am I supposed to

[12:44] do no I think it's not it's not what you

[12:46] say it's how you say it right and so

[12:49] it's I think typically even with like

[12:52] rule enforcement in the campground right

[12:54] is not what we're saying it's how we're

[12:56] saying it right so if I show up into the

[12:58] campsite and I say hey shut the [ __ ] up

[13:00] you know like be quiet it's quiet hour

[13:02] right or if I say hi good afternoon my

[13:04] name is Ryan I'm Oran State

[13:08] Park you pass I can hear the noise

[13:10] coming from down the

[13:13] loop right the exact same thing in a

[13:16] different way right and so yeah and so

[13:18] that's I can think on that because I

[13:20] have I've thought about it it's like how

[13:21] do I explain this to Patrick that he's

[13:24] right overe explaining and just well and

[13:29] and just just so I mean from my

[13:31] perspective as a manager like you're a

[13:32] quick guy like I can say something to

[13:35] you and you get it and you're quick

[13:38] right not everybody is that not

[13:40] everybody is like that right like

[13:42] literally

[13:44] sometimes like overc communicating right

[13:47] is a form of making sure that somebody

[13:49] understands so a good way to do that

[13:51] what I've noticed sometimes is effective

[13:53] as a communicator is to paraphrase back

[13:56] to them what it is that you heard

[13:59] okay and by doing that they say oh yep

[14:02] they got it I don't need to say it again

[14:04] right but if I just say I'm hearing this

[14:06] I just saym they're like did they

[14:09] understand that you know it can create

[14:11] some mystery there and so that's what I

[14:13] mean when I say we're good but I get

[14:14] we're saying right and so yeah I think

[14:16] that's your form of saying we're good I

[14:18] got you like I told to tell what you

[14:20] been saying and you don't need to

[14:21] paraphrase back all you you know and

[14:23] yeah and so but so I I totally

[14:27] understand where you're com I get that I

[14:29] am not your normal volunteer okay and

[14:32] this is a hard thing to navigate um I'm

[14:35] doing my best no and that's and that's

[14:36] what that's all we could ask but in the

[14:39] situation and like I said you know I

[14:42] mean I've never truly had a problem with

[14:43] Patrick like there's been no

[14:44] confrontation with them you know it's

[14:46] always been respectful well that's good

[14:49] you know but just from my perspective as

[14:51] a manager yeah just when I see like

[14:55] emails or text messages in regards to

[14:57] and that's another thing so I have been

[14:59] a freelancer all of my life which means

[15:02] I'm always emailing and this is a state

[15:04] agency thing where um you guys treat it

[15:08] differently than I do and I'm trying to

[15:10] navigate I even try to talk to Logan

[15:12] without sending emails right you know

[15:14] I'm trying to adapt to you guys right um

[15:18] well I wouldn't say is necessarily the

[15:20] emails are the issue with that I

[15:23] communication it's good to communicate

[15:24] it's healthy to communicate and so like

[15:27] do you really mean this I do so like to

[15:29] be a healthy crew is that we have to be

[15:31] able to communicate with each other

[15:33] right and so like I think you know for

[15:36] my understanding of when I was looking

[15:40] through some corresponden and stuff that

[15:42] J had sent is that like by Logan sharing

[15:45] information with like the park manager

[15:48] or Katie is that it led you to distrust

[15:51] him no I know nothing about this I don't

[15:53] know what you're saying so that is that

[15:55] was very clearly in the emails in

[15:57] regards nothing I've said yeah yeah okay

[16:00] no I'm yeah what I have no idea what

[16:03] you're talking about I truly don't fair

[16:04] enough fair enough yeah okay so um I why

[16:07] would I care if he shared something with

[16:09] you I that's not not at all Ryan

[16:12] seriously okay um go back and read it

[16:14] cuz I don't know what you're talking

[16:15] about but I I believe that word was used

[16:18] in there in regards to Logan and being

[16:20] able to to trust him no it's not in

[16:24] there so yeah so just it's not in there

[16:27] fair enough truly not and I think like

[16:29] even you C you sent Logan an email and

[16:31] then you cced Katie on it saying that I

[16:34] know you're going to give this to Katie

[16:35] anyway oh okay so I can explain that I

[16:37] can explain that yeah yeah I can explain

[16:40] that though so I learned from from

[16:42] Frankie the vssl at a different part

[16:45] that when you say something that's even

[16:47] slightly negative and this was a very

[16:49] direct response to Logan that it

[16:51] automatically goes to the supervisor so

[16:53] I knew you would receive a

[16:55] copy that's it okay got you

[17:00] fair enough but yeah so it just to so

[17:04] for me how it came across for for me

[17:06] okay is that um you know I knew I knew

[17:11] that she would receive a copy and I

[17:13] didn't want her to think that it was

[17:14] something I was hiding so I sent it to

[17:16] her directly that makes that makes sense

[17:17] and though just my interpretation of

[17:20] that whole thing was that like I know I

[17:22] can't trust you with information Logan

[17:24] so I'm going to give it to the people

[17:26] that are going to show it

[17:27] to that's how it

[17:29] I'm sorry is not how it was meant at all

[17:32] fair fair enough fair enough but that is

[17:34] definitely how it came across so as a

[17:35] manager I'm thinking oh man like I mean

[17:38] like this is an issue like you know like

[17:41] Sam doesn't feel that he can trust I

[17:43] mean that's why I said I'm not

[17:45] escalating I'm informing trying to

[17:47] prevent that actually so I yeah so and

[17:52] literally not escalating like well I

[17:55] well I I know and and so that could be

[17:58] tough is like sometimes when people say

[18:00] hey I don't want to start well that's

[18:01] why we're talking they say I don't want

[18:02] to start a problem but you know then you

[18:05] tell I am a very direct person I mean

[18:07] what I say mean I wrong with him you

[18:09] know sometimes that could be like I

[18:11] think you don't want to start a problem

[18:12] you know but then I'm very honest and

[18:14] direct I mean what I say I truly do so

[18:18] you do not have to be reading subtext

[18:20] for me I mean what I say okay if it gets

[18:23] misinterpreted that does happen because

[18:26] um one thing I've learned is a lot of

[18:28] people people they attach things to like

[18:30] okay take the word difficult for example

[18:32] is something I've learned this past year

[18:34] when I use the word difficult I'm just

[18:35] describing a situation that is a little

[18:38] complicated but people attach emotions

[18:40] to that I don't do that right that's um

[18:44] I think that people probably do that

[18:45] with all kinds of language that I don't

[18:48] even know about like these are things

[18:49] I'm just learning that people treat

[18:51] language I treat it very very direct and

[18:53] plain I mean what I say right no you're

[18:56] you're right there are definitely

[18:59] inferences or inflections on certain

[19:04] words Us in certain ways I mean even

[19:06] down to like if lettering is bolded in a

[19:09] in a paragraph I mean like that

[19:11] insinuates that like has like a a tone

[19:15] like a negative tone could be perceived

[19:17] as like a negative or threatening tone

[19:19] like you know kind of like putting

[19:21] exclamation points behind something like

[19:23] put like 25 exclamation points so let's

[19:26] get to the real issue here okay

[19:29] uh I don't trust Logan he has not given

[19:32] me any reason to trust him and I have

[19:34] laid out why and because of that I do

[19:38] not want him ruining my future I had to

[19:41] do something about that right I had to

[19:43] make sure that he could not ruin my

[19:45] future right that is why we here right

[19:49] well yeah and so I mean I would I

[19:52] understand that maybe there are a lot of

[19:55] reasons Ryan that you believe that Logan

[19:57] is part of your future right no but no

[20:00] but however he is capable of

[20:02] interrupting my future while I'm here

[20:04] and you are as well so you as a person

[20:07] holds the highest responsibility of that

[20:10] disruption not happening and that's why

[20:13] we're here to talk with you it's not

[20:15] about Logan at all like this about well

[20:17] you started bringing up um Bolding

[20:20] things and that's the only time I've

[20:21] ever bolded something in an email so I

[20:23] made an inference there and I'm just

[20:24] explaining this is why that email was

[20:26] sent because

[20:30] I I was just trying to I was just trying

[20:33] to have you understand that by doing

[20:36] those there are inflections of words

[20:37] because it sounded like before when we

[20:39] were talking that you didn't understand

[20:41] that there were inflections with words

[20:43] but it sounds like you do understand is

[20:45] what I just heard because you said you

[20:47] wanted to make a point so you bolded

[20:48] them I absolutely wanted to make a point

[20:50] with that em all right so we're on the

[20:52] same page with that so um so we do

[20:55] understand that words you know can have

[20:57] some yeah they can easily get

[20:59] misinterpreted too though I mean that's

[21:01] also what we're talking about so correct

[21:03] yes they can go both ways on that right

[21:07] know it certainly can and so that's why

[21:10] we're here talking about stuff and set

[21:12] the expectations moving forward right

[21:15] so uh part of us as a crew um so one

[21:19] thing I could ask for you directly is to

[21:23] um only have conversations with Park

[21:25] staff that don't result in things like

[21:27] threats or demands over emails or texts

[21:31] okay so that would be things like hey

[21:33] I'm you know requesting that you help me

[21:35] get a job and somewhere else or it be

[21:38] like I am prepared to fight this or not

[21:41] let you stand in my way so those things

[21:44] come across as threats and they could

[21:48] they can make people feel not good when

[21:51] they're being threatened and it it makes

[21:53] them not want to engage with somebody

[21:55] else if they feel like they're being

[21:57] threat right okay so so I would just ask

[22:00] that moving forward m is that you know

[22:03] you don't engage in that sort of um

[22:06] verbage of either demanding or you know

[22:09] threatening never made a demand gotcha

[22:12] okay understood but from from so it

[22:15] should be easy then moving absolutely

[22:17] I've never made a demand to not do that

[22:19] um and so the goals of our agency is to

[22:23] you know to being like supportive of

[22:25] each other and welcoming to everybody

[22:28] here and we're we're this is why we're

[22:30] having a conversation with you as well

[22:32] is that we are really trying

[22:34] to have you understand kind of what our

[22:38] observations are and kind of what our

[22:40] expectations are moving forward to to

[22:42] make you be successful and so this isn't

[22:44] like a Logan Thing versus whatever this

[22:46] is a Sam thing and I'm the the park

[22:49] manager I'm responsible for all the

[22:50] employees that are here at the park all

[22:52] the volunteers all the employees and all

[22:55] the people that come from our park and

[22:56] go to different parks and I've been in

[22:59] the agency for 15 years now and I've

[23:01] been in management for half of that and

[23:04] I've seen a little bit of everything

[23:06] from all the way from a Parker Ranger

[23:08] assistant all the way through all the

[23:10] disciplinary processes of a manager and

[23:13] and all the HR stuff right

[23:17] and what I have found to be the most

[23:19] successful thing when somebody comes and

[23:22] talks to

[23:23] me is for me to say you know what I did

[23:25] not see it that way I will do my best to

[23:29] you know change these things moving

[23:31] forward those people are the most

[23:33] successful people in like in their

[23:36] career and in their future I've had a

[23:37] few his opportunities over my career

[23:40] where somebody came and talked to me and

[23:42] it felt like I was chewing on glass

[23:44] right and all I had to do is keep

[23:46] chewing that glass and swallow it right

[23:49] but because of that providing that

[23:51] feedback made me a better person it made

[23:53] me stronger and it made me more

[23:55] resilient and it made me have a better

[23:58] understanding of what my role is and

[24:00] what I'm doing and where I wanted to be

[24:03] in the future right so the conversation

[24:05] we're having is is no different than the

[24:07] conversation that I have been through

[24:09] multiple times in my life right and in

[24:12] particularly even here at this career

[24:14] right

[24:15] so part of why we're talking about this

[24:17] is we want to support the goals of the

[24:19] agency and um and we'll get more into

[24:25] you know the explanation and stuff like

[24:28] that so so and at the park you know

[24:30] we're very big on assuming positive

[24:32] intent right and so it's it's a lot

[24:35] easier said than done right so and this

[24:38] this can be this can go both ways right

[24:41] so the with us as a crew we want to see

[24:44] positive intent for each other want to

[24:46] assume positive intent for the public

[24:48] right so like for example if a um I'll

[24:52] tell a real world example there was a

[24:54] camper camping in Sea and had a pretty

[25:00] beat up Ford Ranger right it had a lot

[25:03] of dents in it spray painted ra can it

[25:06] had a lot of contents in the back of the

[25:09] truck right so at first glance if

[25:12] somebody was not assuming positive

[25:14] intent they might think that these

[25:15] people are up to nefarious activity or

[25:18] they're doing something like they're

[25:20] stealing stuff right so uh we actually

[25:23] had a park coost obviously it's not you

[25:25] so right this is years ago so we had a

[25:27] park host

[25:29] that made contact with them and

[25:31] essentially accused them of stealing

[25:33] stuff in the camp room with no prior

[25:35] knowledge of knowing whether they had

[25:37] paid or not okay well it turned out that

[25:41] that camper was an actual paid camper

[25:45] they came in they were moving across

[25:47] country they didn't have a lot of

[25:49] funding right so they had a lot of stuff

[25:51] with them and it

[25:53] was packed in maybe a a way that you

[25:56] weren't assuming positive intent

[25:59] that set you up for a bad uh interaction

[26:01] with that person right so what do you

[26:04] think happened when the park CL went up

[26:06] to that person and said hey what are you

[26:08] doing here it looks like you're stealing

[26:10] stuff and they were a paid

[26:12] camper I mean so you know made them

[26:16] feel bad right terrible essentially so

[26:20] if we were take that same situation and

[26:23] you know assumed that they had

[26:25] paid it sets us up for a better you know

[26:29] interaction with them right so I always

[26:30] say assume positive intent until proven

[26:32] otherwise right so if Katie like has

[26:35] something stuck in her eye and she goes

[26:37] like that I'm not going to think oh God

[26:40] Katie made a weird face at me she must

[26:42] hate me right I'm going to assume until

[26:44] proven otherwise the kitty had something

[26:46] in her eyeball or if she's having a bad

[26:50] day and she cusses cusses under breath

[26:52] at me I might think damn Kitty might be

[26:54] having a bad day right like I'm going to

[26:57] assume that's not Katie like I'm going

[26:59] to assume positive intent towards Katie

[27:02] that she's doing the best she can with

[27:04] what she got and in my role as a team

[27:06] teammate that's my default position with

[27:08] people in general okay that's

[27:11] good M you know I want to you know make

[27:15] sure that um you know I'm providing that

[27:19] support for for her right and giving her

[27:21] space and and and assuming that positive

[27:24] intent right so a big thing we have here

[27:27] at the crew is to is to assume positive

[27:30] because it sets us up better for Success

[27:33] having contact with I agree that's why I

[27:35] said I don't think Patrick is you know

[27:36] he's just being himself I understand

[27:39] okay well that's good yeah so that's

[27:41] good yeah so

[27:45] okay so I guess um one other thing I

[27:48] wanted to ask and this would be kind of

[27:51] an expectation moving forward is that

[27:54] you know that you take us at our word

[27:57] right and so like I take you at your

[27:59] word Ryan well that's good I'm I'm glad

[28:02] but I do my

[28:04] hope well I took Logan at his word also

[28:07] right well and so I would say is like

[28:10] moving forward like Logan Patrick Leaf

[28:13] Nate Haley Katie Hannah like to be like

[28:16] a a good operating crew we have to take

[28:20] all all of each other I take everyone at

[28:22] their work um I also hold them to their

[28:24] work okay fair enough don't you

[28:29] uh yeah I mean I understand sometimes

[28:33] instances change so like for example it

[28:36] it seems like maybe you're holding on to

[28:37] this Logan Patrick Leaf training you

[28:40] thing oh okay all right so if you're not

[28:42] that's fine but U it just seems like

[28:44] maybe that's what you're referring back

[28:45] to and and if you like is you know that

[28:48] could be all be pushed back on me that's

[28:49] not a Logan thing I told Logan

[28:51] absolutely not Patrick's doing the

[28:53] training right so if okay if you do want

[28:55] to be frustrated with anybody on that be

[28:57] frustrated with me on that because it

[28:59] did not seem like from the information I

[29:01] had that we would not be avoiding

[29:05] Patrick doing a trading because Patrick

[29:06] needs to be able to do that training I

[29:08] understand your point of view on this as

[29:09] for like a volunteer needs to be able to

[29:11] receive that course that and I went and

[29:13] did that's great that's perfect um but I

[29:16] would ask in the future that like we

[29:18] don't have follow-up emails in regards

[29:20] to that so um you know my

[29:24] expectations from like emails and phone

[29:28] messages and text is that they only be

[29:30] professional and directly related to

[29:32] work and if you have employee issues you

[29:35] can bring those to me okay so I'm so in

[29:38] this instance when there's okay I like

[29:40] that when there's an employee issue I'm

[29:43] more the appropriate person to come to

[29:45] than Logan is so and and this might just

[29:47] be like a misunderstanding from yes he's

[29:49] my direct supervisor as a direct super

[29:52] so but Logan has no supervisor Authority

[29:55] whatsoever like he do not and the people

[29:58] that do here at this park is Katie and

[30:01] myself okay so we're the ones that give

[30:04] performance evaluations okay we're the

[30:06] ones that uh you know this is something

[30:09] I didn't know sorry truly two staff

[30:11] specif like more so specifically Yeah

[30:14] well yeah I mean staff and volunteers

[30:16] like yeah like so so if we do a dismiss

[30:18] I got you okay so if we do dismissal

[30:21] inste it's not Logan doing a dismissal

[30:24] it's KD or myself okay right and so um

[30:28] so yes he is he's like day-to-day

[30:29] operations kind of like having

[30:31] somebody be stationed at the park Booth

[30:34] you know so like I did treat him like my

[30:36] direct supervisor I assume that's what

[30:38] he was Goa and that that that makes

[30:40] sense that could be like an

[30:41] misunderstanding and so yeah so Logan is

[30:44] not any any vssl is like they're like

[30:47] day-to-day operations like do the

[30:49] scheduling and they get people put in

[30:52] the slots right um but they don't

[30:56] actually like supervis supervise you

[30:59] know I kind of treated you two as fairly

[31:01] off limits gotcha um gotta Yeah well

[31:05] yeah I mean day-to-day stuff I mean we

[31:07] hope that any Ranger can address any

[31:10] well I'm just I'm just letting you see

[31:13] how I saw the

[31:14] higher yeah and our hope is that like at

[31:17] any time and this is my perspective like

[31:19] from a ranger point of view

[31:21] like like my expectations of Rangers is

[31:24] that they help volunteers anytime they

[31:26] need help you know like and they're

[31:29] available there for help so I mean

[31:31] selfishly I got so many hours of the day

[31:34] right so my hope is that the Ranger will

[31:37] you know hey I need whatever toil paper

[31:39] hey I need cleaning supplies hey I need

[31:41] Mop Heads right that's what those

[31:42] rangers are there for that day-to-day

[31:44] support operations clarifying stuff and

[31:47] if you know and if they can't then

[31:49] obviously then Katie and I can help with

[31:52] that as well right but but ultimately

[31:54] you know at the end of the day is like

[31:55] Katy and I for staff and volunteers of

[31:58] the park we are like the supervisor and

[32:02] so okay everything that happens at the

[32:03] park I got to respond to all the

[32:06] complaint letters that come out of stuff

[32:07] I got to respond to all the good all the

[32:10] good letters that come to the park as

[32:12] well right and and all do the budget

[32:14] stuff and do all the HR stuff and you

[32:17] know run projects and so we're kind of

[32:20] do all the stuff Rangers do plus you

[32:23] know a bunch of other admin stuff okay

[32:25] this is very new to me I truly didn't

[32:27] know kind of

[32:28] scenes whatever so so that sounds that

[32:33] sounds good um and so you know so I

[32:36] would ask that you know you take us at

[32:38] our word right and so um and some of

[32:41] that assuming positive intent goes along

[32:43] with that is that like and yes I said

[32:47] you know maybe you got

[32:49] some stuff that led you to distrust

[32:52] Logan a little bit right but like I said

[32:54] I would asked that let that stuff go and

[32:57] if you wanted to blame I'm not holding

[32:58] anything on like that's how I work so

[33:00] good good so um so part of saw him

[33:06] yesterday and it was very cordial

[33:10] professional good and my hope is that

[33:12] you you know as a volunteer or staff

[33:14] member to have a good functioning

[33:16] working crew you know we we cannot avoid

[33:20] C you know certain people that are on a

[33:22] crew like if I understand I was not

[33:25] trying to avoid Patrick all the time I

[33:27] just thought that that particular

[33:28] circumstance could have been served

[33:30] better okay I mean and I understand that

[33:32] you have a different position on that I

[33:34] was just trying to navigate a situation

[33:36] I thought could have been different

[33:38] right and I was told that it would be so

[33:42] you know he told

[33:44] me yeah fair enough um but like that

[33:48] would be like an expectation moving

[33:49] forward is that like you know any Ranger

[33:52] any volunteer you know we got we got to

[33:54] be able to yeah work in a I'm not saying

[33:58] it but and I would actually you know I

[34:00] don't promote people to be friends

[34:02] outside of work you know but while at

[34:04] work you know have a work like

[34:05] professional interactions with each

[34:07] other you know like we're cordial we say

[34:09] hi we wave goodbye say good to see you

[34:13] you know like respect mutually respect I

[34:16] have been professional to everybody

[34:18] every single time so so some of the

[34:20] things that we're talking about yeah if

[34:21] you're already doing them it should be

[34:23] really easy well I just I'm still want

[34:26] to clarify yeah I want to be clear there

[34:29] is never I don't I cannot think of a

[34:30] single interaction that was negative

[34:32] with the rang there that's okay that's

[34:35] good um I know we talked at the

[34:38] beginning of the month a little bit

[34:39] about the red book and the walking

[34:40] Center about putting work rated things

[34:43] in their only and so I just wanted to

[34:45] make sure that you're that you

[34:48] understand where I was getting at with

[34:49] that um and so you that would be like um

[34:53] notes or poems or drawings you know like

[34:57] things that we put in there would be

[34:58] things like hey Rangers I need uh tissue

[35:02] paper at the Welcome Center or I have a

[35:05] problem with the change find or I didn't

[35:07] think I'd ever have to touch it again

[35:08] I'm not in the welome well you probably

[35:10] won't um but there might be a time when

[35:12] you're out in the Y there's an issue

[35:13] with a y or something like that um or

[35:15] any that sort of stuff so just just I

[35:18] know I talked to b in a month and so my

[35:20] hope is that if I were to go back into

[35:21] the welcome center right now and look

[35:23] back through the pages that there would

[35:25] only be work related things in that red

[35:27] book is is that the case I would say

[35:30] that

[35:31] um I mean we talked about not doing

[35:34] Doodles and I stopped doing Doodles okay

[35:36] I do leave little messages like telling

[35:38] people to have a good day and things

[35:39] like that okay gotcha okay I tried to

[35:42] make it a you know welcoming yeah no

[35:44] fair enough and I think in our

[35:46] conversation I uh explained you know it

[35:48] could be like a court like taking a

[35:50] court like a legal document and we'd

[35:52] only want things that were like directly

[35:53] pertaining to you know things happening

[35:56] at the park right and so I could see how

[35:58] that could be interpreted as like have a

[35:59] nice day but I would just say please

[36:01] don't put that in a red book any long so

[36:04] um now I thought i' made that clear in

[36:07] our conversation and I must not have but

[36:09] I think you understand now what that red

[36:11] book is for and what the expectation

[36:14] would be moving forward okay sounds good

[36:17] all right um we talk about this a little

[36:20] bit so um you know I have become aware

[36:24] of some nonwork rated emails and texting

[36:26] to par staff at our park as well as

[36:29] other Parks okay so I would ask that

[36:33] that you only send work related things

[36:36] to like Logan or any of the other

[36:38] rangers so for example I think You' send

[36:40] a poem to him for him to review and so

[36:44] that would be kind of an inappropriate

[36:46] thing to do um so Logan and I've

[36:50] directed Logan on this and so if there's

[36:52] an issue with how he is to people you

[36:55] know it's strongly encouraged that like

[36:57] we don't have relationship like

[36:59] unprofessional relationship outside of

[37:01] work especially if we're in like a like

[37:04] a supervisor type role right and so in

[37:06] that case Logan is uh you it's a poem

[37:09] about my love for the ocean oversight

[37:12] you know yeah and and I'm I'm not I'm

[37:14] not uh grading your poem or anything

[37:17] like that but what I would ask is that

[37:20] you know like that would be an example

[37:21] of something that is not work related

[37:24] and so if something like that comes to

[37:26] somebody

[37:28] like with maybe no context too it can be

[37:31] received in a way of like I don't quite

[37:35] understand why that was sent to me you

[37:37] know and so you want me to explain it um

[37:40] no I don't I don't necessarily need

[37:42] explanation for that um but you know I

[37:46] would just ask that you know I think

[37:47] like I think you're just trying to share

[37:50] and provide

[37:51] information but you know can I explain

[37:54] it yeah if you want to yeah so

[37:58] I really love my time in the Welcome

[38:00] Center yeah and I want to find other

[38:03] volunteer opportunities where I can do

[38:04] that I'm going to do that at Beverly

[38:06] Beach but there's some other parks that

[38:07] have welcome centers I'm trying to get

[38:09] into MH but I haven't heard from their

[38:11] vsls I asked Logan if you would help me

[38:14] if you would contact them I just wanted

[38:16] him to

[38:18] know

[38:19] uh how much it means to me to be on the

[38:22] coast that poem is about what brought me

[38:24] here

[38:25] like what it

[38:29] yeah that's that's good and yeah and so

[38:32] maybe cuz see it wasn't a demand like

[38:34] you were saying earlier I was a request

[38:36] and I wanted him to understand how

[38:37] important it was to me what I'm trying

[38:40] to do that's all yeah and and just so

[38:42] you know typically so in like Logan's

[38:44] role is like he doesn't he doesn't do

[38:47] that stuff and that's that solely up to

[38:50] you you know I understand

[38:53] I he he's the volunteer coordinator and

[38:57] I just

[38:59] okay I I hear what you're saying I know

[39:02] other volunteer coordinators who are

[39:03] willing to help me gotch okay I good and

[39:05] I was just asking Logan to help to okay

[39:08] understood yeah yeah yeah and just and

[39:11] just so you know in Logan's perspective

[39:13] right and my perspective too is like

[39:15] it's not really up to Logan to do that

[39:17] right and so I agree it's why your

[39:19] request the uh the biggest thing that

[39:22] somebody can do to like get future jobs

[39:25] is to do a kickass job they're currently

[39:28] at that's that's the best way to go

[39:29] about it um because if you do that it

[39:32] makes a lot easier for people to say

[39:35] yeah hey you already trained on the

[39:35] Welcome Center come on over you know or

[39:37] you already trained on your cining come

[39:39] on over right so um so that's I mean you

[39:41] don't think that's inappropriate do you

[39:43] because I have other volunteer

[39:44] coordinators who yeah so I want to say

[39:48] it's inappropriate it's related to work

[39:50] right um but I was just trying to

[39:52] explain to you like

[39:55] um in you know in your asking for in

[39:58] case he knows the other volunteer

[39:59] coordinators and he can put a word in

[40:01] for me right right and I know that like

[40:05] you have said before in our conversation

[40:06] that sometimes you know you you write

[40:08] words you know a little bit different

[40:12] you know differently or you know when

[40:13] you present them you know those words

[40:15] are a little more direct and you know

[40:18] like a you know like a request is

[40:20] different than like an ask you know like

[40:23] so if I use the word like hey I'm

[40:25] requesting that you put in a good word

[40:28] for me you're it's the saying the same

[40:30] thing but using different words and like

[40:32] what we talked about earlier is that I

[40:33] mean I can it sounds like what you're

[40:35] saying is maybe it was interpreted

[40:37] differently than how okay that's what it

[40:39] sounds like to me okay but you know like

[40:41] you said I think we have established

[40:43] that you understand that words do have

[40:44] some of course some meaning to them um

[40:47] that maybe I'm not even aware of right

[40:50] yeah fair enough fair enough so um but

[40:54] back to the uh the work related emails

[40:58] text stuffff like that right so just

[41:00] please keep it understand about what

[41:02] we're talking about at the at the park

[41:04] here right and so we talked about the

[41:07] good reviews and getting so talk about

[41:09] that one um emails texts make them work

[41:13] related

[41:15] um and you know I mean so to just so you

[41:21] know right is like when when you have

[41:26] interactions with

[41:28] um staff members you know and then

[41:32] they're maybe mixed in with you know non

[41:36] like work rated stuff and it's followed

[41:39] up with like an email

[41:43] um like it can be received

[41:47] um like I'll say maybe negatively like

[41:50] almost to the point where like I'm

[41:52] trying to F you here maybe somebody

[41:53] would want to avoid interacting with you

[41:56] you know because they okay putting some

[41:58] meaning behind what those emails mean um

[42:02] and so you know it just I'm this is not

[42:05] necessarily like a a bullet point that

[42:07] I'm trying to like say you shall do this

[42:10] it's something that it's kind of that

[42:12] eating glass a little bit and so I'm

[42:13] trying to provide a little bit of

[42:15] feedback for you of like I think you

[42:18] don't want to actually say what you're

[42:19] about to right of how that could come

[42:20] across M you know I'm not sure what what

[42:24] you mean I don't know I think we're

[42:26] about to find out though oh gotcha uh

[42:29] not I'm not following you but okay um

[42:33] yeah so it just you know I just wanted

[42:36] to to like let you know that it can like

[42:39] make people feel uneasy I don't know

[42:41] what you're talking about so yeah I'm

[42:43] trying to explain it in a

[42:45] [Music]

[42:46] way that would make sense

[42:51] um well it's kind of like like sending a

[42:54] PO somebody a poem without context right

[42:57] it had

[42:58] context well yeah I mean hey look at

[43:00] this poem it had context yeah but when

[43:04] if somebody's coming at it from like a

[43:05] professional workplace like lens it

[43:08] could it could be interpreted

[43:10] differently and then a follow-up email

[43:12] could be sent that's saying like you

[43:15] know I don't trust you or I'm

[43:18] dissatisfied with you or whatever be

[43:21] just from observation it seems at one

[43:23] point in time since you've been here in

[43:25] a month you've had issues with every

[43:27] every one of us besides Nate and Haley

[43:29] because haly's been gone for the whole

[43:31] month of for the whole month pretty much

[43:34] at one time or another you've had an

[43:36] issue with any one of us right and and

[43:40] now I understand your perspective that

[43:44] that you know that's something that you

[43:45] feel I'm you know really not following

[43:48] you but I'm listening okay so it seems

[43:51] like you have based upon the emails and

[43:53] the text messages that you have given to

[43:56] park staff it comes across as you have

[43:58] an issue with like who I can't even

[44:01] think of any other Rangers that I

[44:02] interact with well so I believe I mean

[44:06] if want get out of the nuts and bolts of

[44:07] it so when Kitty responded with you to a

[44:10] text message and you said that you felt

[44:11] that kitty was rude to you that was that

[44:14] was way in the beginning and we put that

[44:17] to us right and it hasn't gotten any

[44:18] better since the beginning it's been

[44:20] consistent throughout the month and so

[44:22] it's like every other week There's an

[44:25] instance of this you know and like I

[44:27] said I'm just trying to provide you

[44:29] feedback at this time of my

[44:31] observation as a park manager you said

[44:34] all the Rangers and you're bringing up

[44:37] what happened with Katie in the very

[44:38] beginning right and I'm just not

[44:40] tracking what you're saying here no well

[44:42] you want to specific examples of what I

[44:44] was talking about I was just trying to

[44:45] provide those right so the first one was

[44:47] Katie the second one was me I came down

[44:48] to talk to you just to talk to you get

[44:50] to know you and understand you which

[44:52] well you can understand why that that

[44:54] situ why are we going back to this

[44:55] because well I'm sorry I I just I

[44:57] thought you wanted some examples of what

[44:59] I was talking about so I was just trying

[45:00] to provide those and so we don't have to

[45:02] revisit them if if you understand what I

[45:04] was what I'm talking about and we don't

[45:06] have to revisit those at all okay so so

[45:10] it sounds like we're good with moving on

[45:11] then from I had those in definitely put

[45:14] that behind me so okay very good awesome

[45:16] that's good that's good so um you know

[45:20] and so you know we are I mean I put it

[45:22] so far behind me I applied for a job

[45:24] here well I mean that's good like yeah

[45:28] well right and and so to continue that

[45:30] forward you know it's like kitty and

[45:32] Logan were down at the wiom center

[45:34] working on the fence yeah and kitty

[45:36] asked you what your plans were for this

[45:38] just a miscommunication well right

[45:40] nothing bad happened what I'm saying is

[45:41] that there's been a consistent

[45:43] miscommunication since you've got here

[45:45] the first of the month okay well and so

[45:47] it turned into that then Katie what you

[45:50] essentially is what my understanding of

[45:53] what you're saying with Katie is that

[45:55] you know Katie purposely asked you what

[45:57] your plans were because she knew that

[45:59] you applied for the job and that is

[46:01] absolutely false that is that is the

[46:03] most false thing I've ever heard ever

[46:06] okay but it's not what I said so well

[46:09] that is how it came across and what and

[46:13] your emails and your texts and your

[46:14] responses back and forth to no I've

[46:16] never said anything like that it's not

[46:18] in any email or text Ling it's not okay

[46:21] well I'm I'm letting you know that's how

[46:22] it was received so from where what are

[46:25] you talking about so

[46:29] well Kitty could talk about it probably

[46:31] well from from the emails because I

[46:33] think after after that I think you had

[46:36] sent was it me and Logan letting us know

[46:39] that you had res sended your application

[46:42] and so I interpreted that that you know

[46:44] something that I said to you in that

[46:47] interaction you decided to send your

[46:53] application because I asked you maybe

[46:55] what you were doing for the summer

[46:57] I mean Katie I didn't um I

[47:03] didn't didn't provide a reason in that

[47:05] email first of all

[47:08] and um I never made it an issue with you

[47:12] okay

[47:13] right yeah I mean I you know I was just

[47:17] well yeah so but this is so these are

[47:19] examples of but I never made it an issue

[47:22] so I this is this what you're saying to

[47:24] me right now is

[47:27] I was this is news to me so okay that's

[47:29] yeah and that's why I'm trying to

[47:30] provide feedback okay to you is when you

[47:34] when you send these emails and stuff and

[47:36] as we established earlier you understand

[47:38] that sometimes words have meaning behind

[47:41] them is that they're interpreted a

[47:42] certain way by us but that's mean

[47:45] exactly that's meaning that other people

[47:47] are assigning to things that are not

[47:50] there though right and you're making me

[47:53] responsible for other people's thoughts

[47:56] basically well would it be fair to say

[47:58] and this is a question for you would it

[48:00] be fair to say that sometimes the way

[48:02] that you're feeling is exactly the same

[48:04] way is how we're

[48:06] feeling I mean that is so vague I don't

[48:08] know how to respond to that well in

[48:10] other words putting meaning behind words

[48:13] you know or

[48:14] correspondence I I I think sure all H

[48:17] probably I mean you know I hear what

[48:20] you're saying there so yeah and so so

[48:23] empathy right seeing through the eye of

[48:25] the other right and so if if you can

[48:29] understand how you feel in those

[48:32] situations I I my My Hope Is that you

[48:34] could understand how that could make I

[48:36] mean a I never situation completely let

[48:40] that go or truly

[48:42] did I don't I yeah I like you I don't

[48:45] it's didn't yeah and that's what like I

[48:48] said this is not a bullet point this is

[48:49] something I'm trying to like provide

[48:52] feedback to you because and this is

[48:54] where Communication in my opinion is

[48:57] it's sometimes hard and sometimes it

[48:59] doesn't feel good but sometimes we got

[49:01] to do it because if Sam doesn't know and

[49:04] I don't let him know about it he can't

[49:06] be aware of it and you know try to make

[49:08] a change for it vice versa with me if

[49:10] I'm not aware of it I can't make a

[49:12] change you know it's kind of thing oh

[49:14] that thing was you know it's kind of

[49:15] like that sliver under the skin or

[49:16] whatever if you don't if you don't like

[49:19] massage it a little bit you know or

[49:20] squeeze it the sliver will never come

[49:22] out it'll just stay in there and you

[49:24] know hurt and you know get more Sor of

[49:26] over time or whatever and so but I never

[49:28] said what you're saying so you're making

[49:31] me responsible for something I did not

[49:33] do well what I'm trying to get across is

[49:36] that sometimes what there's other

[49:39] meaning to the words that we say and

[49:41] they're interpreted by other people as

[49:44] yeah it maybe not what what was intended

[49:46] and so in this case it sounds like

[49:48] that's not what you're intending and I

[49:50] would just let you know that's how it

[49:51] was interpreted okay and so I would I

[49:54] would also okay um argue that that same

[49:58] Theory could be applied to other

[50:00] interactions that you had with Park

[50:02] Rangers in the time you've been here I

[50:05] mean what you're saying is applicable to

[50:08] everybody all the time so right which

[50:10] which as a crew that's where we come

[50:12] back to positive intent so it's

[50:16] something that well what you just said

[50:17] to me is that somebody didn't take what

[50:19] I did as positive so I mean we can flip

[50:23] this around Ryan yeah I I I I I hear

[50:26] that but okay it's positive andt until

[50:28] proven otherwise right and so um but I'm

[50:32] not getting that benefit of the out yeah

[50:35] well yeah I don't you know I see where

[50:38] you're coming from um and I may not be

[50:41] able to help you with that um but all I

[50:43] can do is provide feedback of how how

[50:46] it's feeling from our our perspective

[50:49] and I will say if you don't mind going

[50:51] back to you know that first of the month

[50:54] the the text message thing that I was

[50:56] blind decided that you interpreted it

[50:59] the way that you did because like right

[51:03] I had I I agree and I apologize to you

[51:07] thank you but um like I felt like there

[51:09] was no positive intent from your side in

[51:13] that message that I sent um because you

[51:16] know I got multiple messages from staff

[51:18] you know that you were communicating

[51:20] with him I think you know Leaf called me

[51:23] and I had a conversation with him and I

[51:25] know that you know leaf and talked to

[51:26] anyone that day I don't know what you're

[51:27] talking about either or maybe it was the

[51:29] following day but you know and I know

[51:32] you know and I didn't say anything about

[51:33] you I'd never said anything about you

[51:35] okay well you know leavea talk to me and

[51:37] and let me know that you know he he

[51:39] talked to you and reassured you that you

[51:41] oh okay I do remember this okay yeah

[51:43] that was in the welcom center that was

[51:45] days later I think um I know what you're

[51:47] talking about and so you know he on my

[51:49] behalf you know really tried to tell you

[51:51] that you know there was positive intent

[51:53] you know behind that you know I didn't

[51:55] mean anything by way really thought we

[51:57] put this to rest I we we did we did I'm

[52:00] just trying to tell you I'm just trying

[52:01] to explain to you like how be me like

[52:04] really feeling blindsided by how you I

[52:07] mean I apologize again I truly really

[52:10] put this for rest you know I well right

[52:13] and so and so some of

[52:15] the you said that maybe it felt like we

[52:17] wenum positive tent in that scenario

[52:19] right so you know 6:00 in the morning I

[52:22] didn't want to be texting you you know

[52:25] it just was a bad situation you know

[52:27] just it just yeah it I mean it seems

[52:30] like from my perspective right so I say

[52:32] assum positive intent until proven

[52:33] otherwise so the we started out the

[52:36] first of the month being proven

[52:37] otherwise and so when somebody says it's

[52:40] over I just put a stick in it it's all

[52:42] it's all good it's behind me right it's

[52:45] really hard to be like is it really

[52:47] because similar things are happening in

[52:51] regards to that exact same thing over

[52:54] and over again every other week with

[52:55] somebody else right and so it can be

[52:58] interpreted as that okay but I'm going

[53:00] to need examples because I'm I've tried

[53:02] to provide those have you yeah quite a

[53:05] few of them and I got lots of emails and

[53:07] text messages I'm trying to relay how

[53:09] that could come across um the until

[53:12] proven otherwise thing that was the very

[53:14] first interaction we had with Katie so

[53:16] yes it was so you can't just be like

[53:19] well it's all over I learned from then

[53:21] I'm going to I learned from

[53:23] it yeah I mean maybe I I mean did okay

[53:27] well assume postive intent with me

[53:28] please because I truly well like I said

[53:31] we we're trying right and then once

[53:35] until proven otherwise and it's it's

[53:37] hard

[53:38] to then say well it's always sunny you

[53:41] know it's like it's hard to put to rest

[53:44] I I liked Katie so much I applied for a

[53:46] job here like I

[53:48] literally right I don't right yeah and I

[53:52] thought it was great that you apply for

[53:53] a job and yeah okay thank you and I

[53:58] I just don't see the issue I guess okay

[54:00] and that's and that's all I'm I'm trying

[54:01] to do is just I'm trying to explain of

[54:04] how

[54:05] it how some of these things may come

[54:08] across and I think it relates back to

[54:11] probably the initial I feel like that

[54:14] just caus a spiral that never stops

[54:16] right right and you know we agreed to do

[54:18] a reset right and and but the just

[54:23] providing feedback to you is that like I

[54:25] thought we had to reset then similar

[54:27] issues were arising you know and so it

[54:30] seemed like I'm asking you about them

[54:32] well and yeah I I've tried to provide

[54:36] examples you know throughout the

[54:37] conversation that we've had and like you

[54:40] said you didn't want to revisit those

[54:41] and so I don't really want to revisit

[54:43] each one of those instances you know but

[54:47] um my goal through the conversation is

[54:49] to talk to you and let you know what's

[54:51] my perspective on it and you know what

[54:54] my expectations as a park manager is

[54:56] moving forward oh you won't have to

[54:57] worry about emails from me I understand

[55:00] that that's the big issue

[55:02] here well yeah and so it's you know the

[55:05] nonwork related emails and texts that's

[55:08] that's one of them being able to work

[55:09] with all the staff um never had a poor

[55:13] interaction with any Ranger here that's

[55:14] good that's good that's good um you know

[55:17] and supporting the you know the

[55:19] the the the agency goals as well as the

[55:22] crew goals and it's very polite the

[55:25] guests like me the volunteers like me um

[55:30] every interaction I've had with the

[55:31] ranger has been positive minus the text

[55:33] message with you KD that I can think of

[55:35] I cannot think of a situation where um

[55:38] you know I think we're good I definitely

[55:40] support the goals of the park system

[55:43] good and then the think the other bullet

[55:46] point was that you know tickets at award

[55:48] so um and that that would be all of us

[55:51] that Logan include and all that right so

[55:54] all the Rangers you got to take us for

[55:55] our wood always have okay well that

[55:57] sounds good well it sounded like earlier

[55:59] that maybe you would do everybody but

[56:01] Logan but so I'm glad we're on the same

[56:03] page with that now

[56:05] so no well well good so just so you know

[56:09] um you know I appreciate you talking

[56:12] with us and being open to the

[56:13] conversation sometimes these

[56:15] conversations they they not they suck

[56:17] right and but here's the deal is that I

[56:20] figure unless I talk to it I just want

[56:22] to be treated fairly unless I talk to it

[56:24] you have no way of knowing of any of the

[56:27] stuff that I'm talking about I can't

[56:29] assume that you know any of this right

[56:31] and so um that's really why I want to

[56:34] talk with you because it gives you it

[56:35] gives you an opportunity to say okay we

[56:38] had a conversation I understand I may

[56:41] not fully agree with everything Ryan

[56:43] said right and that's that's totally

[56:45] okay you know like that's that's

[56:48] sometimes between uh supervisor and an

[56:51] employee there's disagreements on you

[56:53] know where things align and stuff like

[56:55] that right and all I could do is try to

[56:59] articulate my observations and where I'm

[57:01] at and what my perspective is and you

[57:04] know kind of what the Ryan I think you

[57:06] know that I'm trying to

[57:09] um I am here with the best intent yeah

[57:13] and I'm here to do a very good job and

[57:17] I'm not here to cause problems for you

[57:18] guys that's not why I'm here good you

[57:21] know that's that's good and so you know

[57:24] just you know support support members of

[57:26] the crew support each other and you know

[57:29] I think keep up the like like I said if

[57:31] there's specific employee related

[57:33] matters please yeah absolutely please

[57:35] come to me about it you know it's not

[57:37] really Logan's thing you know and if you

[57:41] if you're willing I I'd be willing to

[57:43] like talk through some stuff you know if

[57:44] if that's something you know if you do

[57:47] have an issue that we could talk through

[57:49] and very open to discussions with having

[57:52] open conversation about it you know yes

[57:54] um and so that that good right and so

[57:57] like you said I sincerely am open to

[57:59] that it's all good me as well right and

[58:01] so like I do like I I want to see your

[58:05] email changed my opinion okay it was a

[58:07] big deal to me I it really was you know

[58:11] I want to see you be successful too like

[58:12] I said you like the parks you want to be

[58:14] involved in the Parks right and the you

[58:18] know the

[58:19] best a big role that I play in general

[58:22] at work is helping people be successful

[58:25] and whatever is that they want to do

[58:27] whether that be a ranger that wants to

[58:28] be a director whether that be a park

[58:30] host that wants to be a park ranger

[58:33] assistant someday whatever that might be

[58:35] obviously within reason you know I can't

[58:38] like uh you know doctor paperwork or

[58:41] anything like that but you know I can

[58:43] give people skills and hopefully provide

[58:46] perspective that helps steer them in the

[58:49] direction that they would like to go so

[58:51] like with Rangers it's providing

[58:53] additional training competencies getting

[58:55] them involved in you know Regional or

[58:57] OPD program and with Park host I mean so

[59:01] I just I'm going to say

[59:03] this I genuinely wanted to have a future

[59:06] here at Honeyman but I don't think

[59:08] that's possible anymore and I just want

[59:09] to get my time over with yeah I wish

[59:12] that things had been different I do but

[59:16] they're not so you know I love what

[59:20] you're saying yeah and I wish that was a

[59:22] future that we had right right um I'm

[59:26] just going to do my job this month and

[59:27] move on well and so I mean so I would

[59:31] say too is that like you don't have to

[59:34] feel obligated to stay like in other

[59:37] words if if you in if you are in a place

[59:42] where it doesn't feel right for you I

[59:45] would never expect you or want you to

[59:49] stay in a situation like that I

[59:52] understand you know for you like as like

[59:55] a person right and I life is too short

[59:59] MH to do things you know if if if

[60:04] because my whole goal

[60:07] of the I really don't see us having an

[60:10] issue month March is going to just you

[60:13] know it's going to be fine okay my goal

[60:16] with the crew and volunteers that

[60:17] everybody wakes up in the morning looks

[60:19] forward to going to work and interacting

[60:21] with each other and enjoying the stuff

[60:23] they're doing but if like at any time

[60:27] like don't feel obligated like like if

[60:30] there's some kind of an issue I will

[60:31] come talk to you okay but like yeah so

[60:34] like and but don't feel that you are

[60:37] required or obligated to stay in any way

[60:40] like if you're feeling a certain way I

[60:43] understand I appreciate though feelings

[60:45] you know because sometimes that doesn't

[60:48] I've had I've had jobs didn't work out

[60:50] you know and that's just part of life

[60:52] sometimes right sometimes that it

[60:53] happens and um so you know also I enjoy

[60:56] what I'm doing you know that too that's

[60:58] like it's not you know don't feel

[61:01] obligated anyway like we can I don't

[61:04] feel obligated I'm here by

[61:07] choice all right uh any clarification or

[61:10] anything we talked about no I appreciate

[61:13] the discussion okay well I appreciate

[61:15] you talking with us and meeting with us

[61:16] and I really do appreciate the hopping

[61:18] into doing yts and learning another role

[61:20] and you know and so I think that's good

[61:23] it's actually not as bad as I thought it

[61:24] would be that's good for you tugman

[61:26] didn't you yeah that's good for you yeah

[61:28] that's good yeah you know each place a

[61:31] littleit different each Ys a little you

[61:33] know you kind of get a rhythm and stuff

[61:35] like that but it is important work that

[61:37] you're doing you know because when

[61:40] people show up for their yts yeah you

[61:42] know they're dirty you know like we I

[61:46] think of it feel that you know if not I

[61:48] think of it

[61:50] where these campsites have I mean they

[61:53] have generations of memories to so I

[61:56] think about stuff like that MH yeah yeah

[61:59] you know it is

[62:03] important all right well um thank you

[62:07] Ryan yeah hey thank you appreciate

Recorded Meeting with Oregon State Parks Leadership – March 5, 2025 (Audio Only)

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